In this in-depth interview with Phill Bevan, an experienced Corporate Advisor with a diverse and successful career in various sectors, we gain valuable insights into the complexities of the vocational education and training (VET) sector, regulatory challenges, and the evolving role of technology. Phill's extensive experience in strategy, policy, planning, and capability development provides a wealth of knowledge for both newcomers and seasoned professionals in the VET sector.
Here is the copy of the interview:
Professional Journey and Strategy:
Phill, could you walk us through your journey and how you developed your expertise in strategy, policy, planning, and capability in various sectors?
From early in my career I focused on developing knowledge in diverse topic areas as I needed exposure and the application of that knowledge in context. An example of this was engaging in Commerce studies at Monash when starting and running my first business. And again, engaging in formal Auditor qualifications when commencing internal auditing for my own and other businesses.
Something that is getting more focus now than in the past - particularly in the Higher Education sector - is that expertise is developed from real world application of skills and knowledge. Perhaps one reason why such a high percentage of University graduates don't end up working in their area of study is that their study wasn't engaged in application and building expertise.
Having said that, all of the various profiling tools I have engaged in over the years highlight that I have always displayed strategic mindset traits, so perhaps personality has played a part.
Project Highlights:
You have worked on a diverse range of projects, from multi-award-winning learning and technology implementations to industry training strategies. Can you share a project that you found particularly challenging and rewarding?
Operating in the 'pure consulting' space every project brings its own unique challenges. One project that immediately springs to mind is a project with Qantas Engineering back over a decade ago, where we worked with the business in preparation for the implementation of the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) licensing framework for Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (LAMEs).
The application of standards to operating contexts always raises challenges and with an international licensing framework, national aviation regulator requirements, national industry competency standards alignment and a highly unionised workforce, this project was no exception.
Leading a small team and assisting the business (and individual LAMEs) to understand what the new framework meant for the work scope of practice, licensing and ongoing training requirements was a rewarding outcome.
The auditing and consultancy work done for the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) a decade back was also a bit of a highlight in terms of being rewarding, but I tend not to chat about that one!
Digital Transformation and Learning Technologies:
In your experience with digital transformation and automation, what are the key factors that ensure a successful transition in an organisation? How do you see the role of learning technologies evolving in the education sector?
Any transformation must have buy-in and support from the top of the organisation, and digital is no exception. If key Executive are not starting with a conviction that the project will actually be transformational, and how to achieve it, the project will struggle. Understanding the benefits of the transformation, and being able to clearly communicate these to all stakeholders to achieve organisation wide buy-in is the key to successful implementation.
Learning technologies (like all technologies) are becoming ubiquitous. Rather than just being a 'platform' for specific student cohorts, learning technologies are becoming the key operating basis for the organisation. An example of this is the vetr Community that I support. No buildings, offices, no staff. No physical presence whatsoever. Yet supporting a network approaching 20,000 professionals who have undertaken over 75,000 professional development activities. And growing daily.
Quality Management Systems:
You have extensive experience with Quality Management Systems like ISO. How do you approach implementing these systems in different organizational contexts?
'Context is king' as the question notes! It is critical that any QMS project starts with a robust Scope that has clearly defined and documented the operating context of the organisation. We have been fortunate in recent years to support QMS development and implementations for diverse organisations such as education institutions, not-for-profit organisations and government departments. While all organisations may have similar functions (such as Finance, HR or Records Management) how organisations approach their processes can vary greatly.
Once the scope is well understood, like all systems implementation, engagement with people is the key to success - ongoing communication and active engagement of all levels of the organisation in understanding, documenting and refining processes that will drive future work.
Advisory Roles and Impact:
As an advisor, you've worked with a wide range of entities, from government to startups. What is your approach to understanding and addressing the unique needs of each type of organisation?
Consultation starts even before the project does! We won't take on any project without having a robust understanding of the project scope and outcomes that the organisation is aiming to achieve. This requires significant consultation with key stakeholders prior to even a proposal being provided for the organisation's consideration.
Once a project is starting, in addition to more internal and external consultation, the situational analysis supported by documentation review is also critical. Our clients are sometimes surprised by the volume of documentation we seek to review and understand. And then also surprised at how well we know the organisation as the project progresses! Organisations tend to understand themselves, their internal operations well. Unfortunately we find it is not uncommon however that an organisation might not fully understand the external environment they are operating in.
HSEQ Vanuatu Experience:
With your role in HSEQ Vanuatu, what are the unique challenges and opportunities you face in developing HSEQ Management Systems in the Pacific region?
Vanuatu only recently became a member of International Standards Organisation (ISO) in 2017, so while the challenges and opportunities in the Pacific tend to mirror everywhere else, one key difference is the awareness of ISO standards and the benefits that these standards bring to organisations, industries and countries.
A recent example is work we have done with the relatively new ISO 37000:2021 Governance of organisations Guidance. We have been running workshops and providing resources on how organisations may implement the 11 governance principles of the new international standard within the governance frameworks of their organisations. This seems a natural starting point, given the focus on governance in Pacific countries, although I suspect this particular standard may also have strong interest in coming years in the Australian region also.
Community Engagement with vetr:
As a Community Advisor for vetr, how do you foster engagement and growth in this digital community of educators? What are some key strategies you've implemented?
vetr recently celebrated its 10th birthday and I think it is surprising at how the community has grown and engaged - particularly since the launch of the current community portal in late 2017.
Perhaps any secret to the engagement is in your question - the community focus! No membership fees or framework, no corporate accounts. Just individuals looking for quality professional development experiences and other individuals offering a wide range of synchronous or asynchronous options. While it can at times be a little chaotic, the lack of 'curation' or 'strategy' around how the community works or what products are offered seems to be a key strength.
Workforce Development and Accredited Learning Frameworks:
Can you discuss your approach to workforce development and the integration of accredited learning frameworks within organisations?
This has been a large part of my work over the last two decades, working with corporations such as Wesfarmers, Tabcorp, Westpac, McDonald's, Foxtel, Qantas, Woolworths and QBE Insurance to name but a few. In my experience Enterprise RTOs do an amazing job and are really valuable working engagements. Perhaps again it is my preference for the real world application of study in context, rather than just 'doing study.'
Having a robust capability / competency framework in place or developed is needed in the approach to support success - accredited learning options need to be carefully considered, aligned and tested against the enterprise's defined roles and tasks. Understanding the external environment in terms of compliance expectations can throw up some challenges, but we have always found that a focus on 'how' to apply compliance in context finds solutions. And frees up the project to then focus on the quality outcomes the enterprise is seeking to achieve across program implementations. In terms of accredited learning resourcing, I'm not sure we could go past enterprises as having the best facilities, equipment, systems and other resources to support practical skills development and industry 'know-how.'
Trends and Future Predictions:
Based on your extensive experience, what trends do you foresee in strategy and technology for capability development in the near future?
In short, technology is the strategy.
It is incredible how fast and large the impact of open AI models has been on all kinds of work and study in 2023. I'm not sure we can run a workshop activity anymore without at least one of the participant groups dropping the group activity information into AI to augment their thinking. And I am a big believer that this is exactly as it should be. It has been surprising to me that, after decades of forecasts and reports on the importance of 'critical thinking' skills, some initial community reaction to AI was that it needs to be banned in schools or other educational contexts. It is exactly the tool that we needed to challenge and grow critical thinking and application in our students.
As an educator I can absolutely state that technology (including AI) has and is expanding my personal capability development and suggest this is no different for other individuals, organisations and whole industries. Any organisation not placing technology as a key pillar of strategy may well struggle in coming years.
Personal Reflections:
Reflecting on your diverse career, what do you consider your most significant learning or insight? What advice would you give to professionals looking to specialise in strategy and technology for organisational capability?
Never stop learning.
Is it possible to stop learning now? In my career I have unfortunately experienced individuals resisting change to the point of their career detriment. Can we imagine now an educator who refuses to use technology in their work?
Strategically understand what it is that you need to learn at each step of your professional development and then strategically engage in that learning, via the 'right' approach at the 'right' time - being exactly when you can apply it to the real world. If you can achieve that, you will continually build and embed your expertise in your chosen field.
Challenges in the Vocational and Enterprise Learning Sectors:
What are some of the biggest challenges you have faced in the vocational and enterprise learning sectors, and how have you addressed them?
Keeping up with regulatory change must be the top answer for any VET Provider Executive. And how to address it is to keep up! The VET sector is a highly regulated industry, so anyone who wants to operate in the sector must prioritise understanding and applying regulatory requirements as they change.
The rate of change in the VET sector has been regrettable over the last two decades. While we have had a 'settling' in recent years from a Commonwealth regulatory perspective, obviously again that is about to change.
Vision for the Future:
Looking ahead, what are your goals and aspirations for your future projects and advisory roles?
I am very fortunate to be in a position like many older advisors to be able to 'pick and choose' the projects that have meaning to me. With my work in the Australian region, continuing to support the vetr Community in its mission for quality professional development opportunities is high on the list, particularly given the wave of VET reform about to arrive.
In recent years offshore we have focused our work in government, education and not-for-profit areas, engaging in rewarding projects that are building capability while also achieving organisational outcomes. We have a roster of projects underway that will run throughout 2024 in this space. I have also been enjoying a return to facilitating workshop experiences for participants on a range of organisational governance and management topics.
Regulatory Environment Assessment:
Based on your extensive experience, how would you describe the current regulatory environment in the Australian VET sector?
There are obviously suggestions that the current regulatory framework is not fit for purpose. But after ARF, AQTF2002, AQTF2005, AQTF2007, AQTF2010, NVR2012 and SRTO2015, one ponders whether yet again upending the regulatory framework will achieve the outcomes that the government has apparently not been able to secure in the last 25 years via the same approach.
Given the federated nature of VET and ongoing government investment in the sector, the regulatory environment is highly complex, constantly changing and retaining significant inconsistencies across jurisdictions. Working with national corporations for decades, I'd highlight it is an enormous challenge to maintain visibility of and effectively implement ongoing regulatory change across Australia's nine jurisdictions. Unfortunately I'd suggest that this challenge is one of the reasons so many enterprises no longer run internal accredited learning programs, at great loss to employees who could be achieving formal certification of valuable skills.
Impact on Quality and Compliance:
In your opinion, how does the current regulatory framework impact the quality of training and compliance among VET providers?
Like any highly regulated environment, the tendency is to focus on compliance rather than quality, and many VET providers clearly fall into that trap. Working with ISO standards for decades, I can't help but note that I think the Commonwealth has missed an opportunity to focus VET providers on Quality Assurance - as reflected in the international standard. Quality management including quality assurance is well-known and well documented internationally with frameworks that support organisations the world over to assure their operations.
This current 'jaunt' into more VET specific language (like self-assurance) which then has to be separately defined and communicated has, and is, only confusing providers further as to what the regulatory framework actually requires. And ultimately the regulatory framework remains compliance, not quality, focused.
Challenges and Opportunities:
What are the most significant challenges that VET providers face under the current regulatory system? Conversely, are there any opportunities that this system presents?
As noted in one of my earlier responses, keeping up with and effectively applying regulatory changes to the VET provider's operating activities is a top challenge. The complexity of the VET sector does provide existing providers with some competitive positioning - barriers to entry will only grow in coming years I'd suggest.
The renewed focus on TAFE and increasing investment for these providers does hold significant opportunities for renewal of the TAFE network to be achieved and potentially better alignment and partnership with the higher education sector.
For non-TAFE providers, my advice is to well understand your competitive position and unique selling point in the market(s) you are supporting and deliver quality - exceed, do not just meet your stakeholders' expectations. It is going to be a difficult few years ahead.
Comparison with International Standards:
How does Australia's regulatory environment for vocational education and training compare with international standards and practices?
In my work I can contrast the Australian, New Zealand and Vanuatu regulatory environments. My general comment is that, the more the Commonwealth talks about its "best practice approach," the less it seems to have one. While there are obviously advantages and disadvantages of any framework, in my work I find the Australian requirements are becoming more and more opaque (particularly when considering items like the proposed revised Standards for RTOs). Whereas in a framework like the Vanuatu regulatory framework, expectations are quite explicit.
While some in the Australian VET sector state that standards should not be prescriptive, in my discussions with VET providers there is a genuine interest in the regulations clearly "stating what is needed" and genuine wish to do it.
Digital Transformation and Regulation:
With the increasing role of digital transformation in education, how do you think the regulatory environment is adapting to accommodate new technologies and methods of delivery?
Is it adapting? LOL!
In areas like assessment and plagiarism, there was already a fit-for-purpose framework in place in the VET sector (Principles of Assessment & Rules of Evidence) to address technological advancements like AI. It is more the general & liberal education sectors that are struggling to adapt. But great to see much more discussion in our higher education sector around 'authentic assessment.' That is also driving focus on application of knowledge.
The regulators have done a large amount of work in recent years on communicating expectations around use of technology in VET - clearly accelerated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Work will need to be ongoing in this area as new and evolving technologies are progressively adopted in education.
Policy Recommendations:
If you had the opportunity to recommend changes to the regulatory framework, what key areas would you focus on for improvement?
There are some big ticket items in my wish list. Cease making up language and acronyms in the sector and use terminology and frameworks that are internationally defined, understood and accepted. That would reflect 'best practice.'
Don't push VET providers to be more than VET providers - while we do have a wellbeing challenge, for example, in our community forcing all VET providers to engage in 'ongoing community engagement' or forcing the 'provision of wellbeing services' if such actions eventuate will complicate and distract from the VET providers core purpose. Myriad services already exist in our communities - they do not need to be replicated in entities where this is not a core purpose.
One item I have been sharing for decades - if it is VET, it is the workplace. My recommendation is to require more real employment (or work placement) to be mandated for training products - particularly full qualifications. Where there is also an employer involved supporting and confirming skills development, in my experience graduates actually have greater skills development outcomes.
The professional development of practitioners also needs to be effectively addressed. I have concerns and also hope that the current VET Workforce Blueprint will take a different approach to the past and actually make inroads in addressing this challenge.
Future Predictions:
How do you foresee the regulatory environment in the VET sector evolving in the next few years?
On available evidence, my concern is that the environment will become more complex with greater expectations on VET providers in the name of 'quality' that achieves little real outcomes.
The new National Skills Agreement, while a significant achievement, does not indicate any desire from governments to improve national consistency in the sector.
Particularly the Commonwealth regulator has been quiet in direct action in recent years - for example currently doing the lowest audit volumes in its history. With community outcry and Ministerial action this year over poor practices, and a large budget injection, I suspect VET providers will experience a much more engaged regulator in the years to come. I would love to see a single, national tertiary regulator for the Australian region, but this seems to still be well out of reach.
Balancing Innovation and Regulation:
How can VET providers balance the need for innovation and staying current with industry trends while adhering to regulatory requirements?
'How' to maintain compliance should be a given - freeing the organisation to indeed focus on industry trends, innovation and quality outcomes. I appreciate that sounds a little utopian, but VET providers that are not operating from a basis that compliance is already understood and addressed are going to struggle in their operations. Effective focus and resourcing in these areas is needed.
Role of Quality Management Systems:
What role do quality management systems play in navigating the regulatory landscape of the VET sector?
The first step for a VET Providers' QMS is to understand the minimum regulatory requirements applicable. Legislation, policy and guidelines, contractual and other external regulatory stakeholder requirements (Compliance). Once this scope is defined, the needs and expectations of all other stakeholders also needs to be identified, defined and documented (Quality).
Achieving these two scoping steps upfront will ensure that the QMS is developed and maintained with compliance built-in and quality outcomes being the primary driver of provider decisions and operations.
And my advice to all VET providers - regardless of the 'language' being used, assuring quality is a well known and documented international process - no need to reinvent the wheel, use existing international frameworks to assure your operations.
Advice for New Entrants:
What advice would you give to new training providers or educators entering the VET sector in terms of dealing with the regulatory environment?
For new providers, what is your competitive advantage, USP and approach to the market?
This is a very fragmented, complex, ever changing sector. You will need to have a solid plan.
And then the QMS supporting your operations is critical.
For educators, compliance is not a blocker. Understand the minimum requirements and work out how you can most easily reflect these in your daily work processes. And then get on with the focus on quality - exceed what your clients and students expect and become a VET legend!
Impact on Learners:
How do you think the current regulatory environment affects learners and their educational outcomes in the VET sector?
I suggest that the way many VET providers are approaching the current regulatory environment has a significant impact on learners and educational outcomes. Regulation has always been there and will always be there. Some VET providers are struggling with the ongoing challenge of understanding and resourcing minimum compliance as an operational given. This keeps the focus on compliance - the minimum standard - and robs students of what might otherwise be quality or even exceptional experiences.
Stakeholder Engagement:
In your view, how effectively are stakeholders like industry bodies, educators, and learners involved in shaping the regulatory framework in the VET sector?
In the current reform agenda, my strong view from the activity in recent years is that industry and employer bodies (while having an important role) are too heavily involved in shaping future regulatory requirements. This seems to be a view held widely by VET practitioners.
As 'end users' of regulatory requirements and training packages, VET providers and VET practitioners do not seem to be adequately included in consultation processes. While appreciating that too many cooks spoil the broth, if VET practitioners feel disengaged from the external processes and factors that ultimately affect them, I'm not sure we can achieve an optimal outcome for the sector.
